Ask the Expert

Marjorie Jean Meyer, CMCA®, PCAM®
Vice President and National Director of Education and Certification
ASSOCIA

Background: Currently our developer has complete authority over our homeowners association as this was agreed to by every homeowner (unbeknownst to them) when the homes were purchased. It is written in the "restrictions" that until "not less than 100% of the lots have been sold closed and conveyed title" the developer has "exclusive rights to establish bylaws for the Association and to appoint the Board of Directors, all in his sole and absolute discretion". It is also written he has the right to raise annual association fees as he deems necessary. Our subdivision is not completely built yet. We are about 2/3's completed. However, the developer is still building to an annexed portion of the sub, which is located across the major road from our existing sub. The developer has invoiced the homeowners for the 2004 Association Budget. In his budget he "estimated" an increase of $20,000.00 for city water/sewer alone. He has increased every line item across the board, almost tripling our cost from last year. The fee seems unreasonable.

Questions: Where can I find out the initial development plans for our sub? How can I find out what costs "should be" incurred by the developer versus what costs are incurred by the current homeowners? Should the installation and maintenance costs of new landscaping, trees, sprinkler systems, water/sewer,etc., on newly developing but not occupied homes and vacant lots be charged to the existing homeowners of same subdivision? Should the developer be incurring these costs?

- Mary B.

All the answers to your questions should be found in your community's Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions, and Bylaws. These two documents, along with any Rules and Regulations and Architectural Guidelines, should have been delivered to you either before or at the time your settled on your home, and together comprise the "contract" between you and your homeowners association, as one-sided it may be with regard to your developer's rights.

Typically, developers want to keep very tight control over the homeowners association during the sales period. They want to make sure that the property looks in optimal condition to entice buyers. The developers worry that if control of the common elements is turned over to a homeowner-run homeowners association, the volunteer board of directors won't have the same ability, care and concern for the common elements, resulting in a less attractive community with little curb appeal to prospective purchasers.

With regard to the increases in your annual budget, is it possible that the additional expenses are a result of the increased number of residents in your community, opening new common areas that require irrigation, landscape maintenance, and perhaps increased insurance on the common elements? Could you talk with the developer or his agent about your questions? Perhaps you could suggest to the developer to create an "Advisory Board" of homeowners that would relay information between him and the owners, helping him to explain his actions and receive comments and suggestions from the owners. An Advisory Board can reduce the friction between the developer and the homeowners, increasing word-of-mouth sales and hastening the day when the developer turns over control of the association to the owners.

Sincerely,

Margey

I am a homeowner in a new community (1 yr). We currently have an outside property management company acting as the Association, but myself and all the other homeowners are now interested in establishing our own association. One of the owner's here is also the builder and has expressed resistance to this idea. (He now is the one "calling the shots" with the property management company.) We have been virtually voiceless in any and all decisions being made by the property management company. How should we approach this situation and how do we go about setting up a homeowner's association without having to get legal force behind us?

- Katherine R.

There seems to be some confusion over who controls your community association, so here's a brief explanation of how the process usually works.

In most situations, the governing documents for your association, including the Articles of Incorporation, Declaration and Bylaws, are filed before the first home is sold. The developer and the people s/he selects, usually employees, serve as the initial board of directors and control the operations of the association until a certain date or until a certain percentage of homes are sold (the exact "transition" occurrence is described in the Declaration). Since most developers do not have the time or expertise to run the homeowners association, they hire a management company to perform that service. The management company acts as an agent for the association, NOT the developer, although the two entities are not easy to separate since the developer is the CEO of both.

Developers usually retain control of the association during the period in which their primary concern is to sell his homes because they want to ensure that the property sparkles with good maintenance provided by the association. Once the owners have control of their community, it's possible that deed restrictions will not be strictly enforced and the common areas not adequately maintained, conditions that affect curb appeal and diminish sales.

Although the developer probably does not want to relinquish total control of the association until the time specified in your Declaration, he might be willing to form a 'Homeowner Advisory Board" to work with him on issues that affect the residents in your community. Or, perhaps he would appoint a homeowner to the board of directors. The homeowner may not have a majority vote, but s/he may provide important insight and suggestions to the board.

If your director is interested in the National Homebuilders Association-endorsed method of addressing homeowner association issues during the development period, perhaps s/he would read the attached report (Transition Best Practices Report) prepared by a task force comprised of members of the National Homebuilders Association and the Community Associations Institute. I'm also attaching for your review "Community Association Living", a very detailed explanation of what it means to live in a community association.

Sincerely,

Margey

These documents are in PDF format. Viewing them requires Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is a free downloadable software available by clicking here:

I live in a community of over 200 homes. Since 1975 our CC&R's have placed the responsibility of erosion control of common areas on the Association. Over the last 5 years there has been serious eroding of land at our tennis courts. This and past Boards have dragged their feet in correcting the problem. Now there are 6 homes with even more serious threat of erosion behind their houses on the common area. Problem: the current Board is intent on changing the by-law and shifting the liability onto the homeowner. This has caused a drastic rift among our community. A small percentage has appealed to the Board, written letters, to no avail. Short of any lawsuit is there any recourse or help we can solicit?

- Laura B.

It sounds like the members of your homeowners association are polarizing on this issue, a situation that never bodes well for a productive, effective, successful community. As you indicated, litigation should be the last resort; perhaps one of the following suggestions would better resolve this frustrating and emotional issue:

1. Try to convince the Board to amicably resolve the situation, perhaps through mutually agreed to mediation or arbitration. There is usually a Dispute Resolution Center in most cities that can help mediate these kinds of disagreements.
   
2. If there is neighborhood support, the owners could attempt to remove the Board and vote into office board members who would carry out the majority of members' intent.

This quicker this situation can be resolved, the better it will be for the residents in your community. I hope reason and compassion prevails among all involved so together you can explore potential amicable alternatives.

Sincerely,

John Carona, President
Associa
(Regular contributor to Association Times and "Ask the Expert")

Our condo association is having a big dispute on whether to continue to use a private company for trash collection or use city services. We do need the money saved to help build up a reserve fund. At the last special meeting the argument for and against got very heated. The board members are also evenly divided on this issue. We are now having a ballot sent out for members to vote on this issue so it can be settled before the next meeting to prevent the heated arguments. I expect the vote to be quite close. Do we need a 2/3 vote for this to pass? There is nothing in the bylaws about this.

- Ruth M.

Please review your community association's Bylaws and Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions to determine the percentage of votes needed to change from private to public trash collection, or if a homeowner vote is even necessary. Is it possible that the board of directors can make this decision without a homeowner vote? If so, would it be prudent for the board to survey the owners before making a decision that will impact all members of the association?

If your governing documents are unclear about this issue, I urge you to consult with your association's legal counsel to ensure that the appropriate procedures are followed. I'm sure you want to make the right decision that will not be challenged by potentially unhappy owners and board members, so talking with your attorney may be the best first step to take.

Regards,

Margey

How do I find out if my condo fees are comparable for my area? Our fees went up $50 per month this year an I would like to find out if what I'm paying is average for the area.

- Christie

You might be able to find out the assessments for neighboring communities by accessing an online real estate listing service such as www.realtor.com.

However, just knowing how much another community is charging doesn't mean that the assessments are comparable. For example, smaller condominium communities typically pay higher fees than larger ones because there are fewer units to share expenses such as insurance premiums that are not dependent on size of the community, i.e., a boiler and machinery policy to cover controlled access gates. There are many other variables to consider as well: age of buildings, type and number of amenities, type of roofs, type(s) of building exteriors, physical condition of the buildings and common elements, utilities provided by the association, optional services provided by the association, type of management (volunteer, onsite employee or offsite management company), form (if any) of controlled access, and amount in reserve funds.

So, even if you are able to find out the maintenance fees of nearby condominium communities, it may not help you determine if your own fees are reasonable. A lot more research would be necessary before you could conclude that your association's budget is excessive.

Sincerely,

Margey

I believe that the maintenance fees at my community are relatively very high based on the value of my/our condo(s). How can I compare fees with similarly valued properties in our area?

- Steven L.

You might be able to find out the assessments for neighboring communities by accessing an online real estate listing service such as www.realtor.com.

However, just knowing how much another community is charging doesn't mean that the assessments are comparable. For example, smaller condominium communities typically pay higher fees than larger ones because there are fewer units to share expenses that are not dependent on size of the community, such as a boiler and machinery insurance policy to cover controlled access gates. There are many other variables to consider as well: age of buildings, type and number of amenities, type of roofs, type(s) of building exteriors, physical condition of the buildings and common elements, utilities provided by the association, optional services provided by the association, type of management (volunteer, onsite employee or offsite management company), form (if any) of controlled access, and amount in reserve funds.

So, even if you are able to find out the maintenance fees of nearby condominium communities, it may not help you determine if your own fees are reasonable. A lot more research would be necessary before you could conclude that your association's budget is excessive.

Sincerely,

Margey

Our site condo home owners association is a nonprofit corporation. The condominium is located along a lake. Recently the association installed a few docks and started accepting fees from individual members who wish to use the docks. Does accepting this fee for the service of a community facility change our nonprofit status? Is it permitted in a nonprofit corporation? Wouldn't that fee be reported as not exempt income?

- Kim H.

While it's always best to consult with tax experts regarding homeowner association tax issues, in general the IRS allows the nonprofit status for a homeowners association so long as 60% of the association's income is derived from member assessments and 90% of expenditures are to maintain, manage or construct association property.

Sincerely,

Margey

Is there a formula for computing how much an Association should be setting aside each month for Reserves?

- Margie P.

Many years ago, FHNMA and Freddie Mac required that a certain percentage of the annual maintenance fee billings be allocated to a reserve fund. However, that was during the original conceptualization and implementation of a new type of residential community called a homeowners association. Thirty years later, it's now recognized that each association is unique, and the amount necessary to be allocated to a reserve depends on many issues including number and type of amenities, the association's maintenance responsibilities, the age and condition of the common elements, and the current amount in reserves.

If you want to know how much you should be setting aside in a reserve fund for the eventual replacement of your community's capital components, you should consider hiring a Reserve Specialist, the designation awarded by the Community Associations Institute (CAI) to individuals who have fulfilled strict professional criteria. One of the most respected companies that offer Reserve Specialists is Reserve Advisors at www.reservesadvisors.com. For a list of all Reserve Specialists, contact CAI at 703/548-8600, or online at www.caionline.org.

Regards,

Margey

Is there a copy of my CC&Rs in here some where?

- G.

Association Times is a national e-magazine for homeowners residing in community associations. We do have a special affiliation with Associa, a company with member management offices nationwide, one of which may manage your community. Check your management company's website to see if there is a link to your community's website where you may be able to download your governing documents.

Sincerely,

Margey

Who answers these question? How often do you check for questions?

- G.

Questions are automatically forwarded to me for response. I try to answer all queries within 48 hours.

Regards,

Margey

I have learned quite a bit by reviewing your archived Q's & A's. Thanks for posting them. I have two questions:

1. I am currently on an association board and have been in positions where I get vague or conflicting information from our management company and our attorney regarding processes for collecting delinquent dues. Could you please tell me where to search for information to improve my understanding of the collection process for delinquent dues in a Home Owner's Association in Texas?
   
   
2. We also have a few situations where the property has changed hands without a resale certificate when the previous owner owed assessments and fees. If the title company didn't catch this is the title insurance liable for the balance? In one case, the closing papers state "No HOA" in another, there were two liens on record.

- Mary

Thanks for your positive feedback!

Your question indicates that you're living in a homeowners association, not a condominium, so my questions are based on that understanding. Please get back with me if I misunderstood and you reside in a condominium community instead.

With regard to your first question, there are indeed both state and federal resources that can help you determine how your association should be collecting maintenance fees. The first place to look, however, is the governing documents for your community, especially the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions ("Declaration"). There are usually provisions in the Declaration that state the due date and late date for maintenance fee payments, as well as penalties for nonpayment.

In addition to the Declaration, your board of directors may have approved a policy resolution which elaborates on the provisions in your Declaration. For example, your Declaration may simply state that assessments are due on the 1st of the month and late after the 15th, while a resolution might address late charges, partial payments, insufficient funds, and the actual collection process.

Chapters 201 through 209 of the Texas Property Code (www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pr.toc.htm) also detail specific procedures, actions and behaviors required or prohibited of homeowners associations, some with specific regard to assessment collection. Finally, the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm) requires that debt collectors treat you fairly and prohibits certain methods of debt collection.

With regard to your second question, if the title company failed to contact a representative of your association prior to closing on a home, the title insurance policy would normally be responsible for paying to the association delinquent amounts incurred prior to the date of closing. Depending on your Declaration, it may not even be necessary to file the lien in order to alert anyone searching ownership records to learn of the debt. Most documents refer to an "automatic" lien on the property for maintenance fees which is recorded when the home is sold, and no further action is necessary to protect the association's rights to collect those funds.

On the other hand, the State of Texas requires homeowners associations to record a Management Certificate in the county records in which the community is located so that anyone who wants to contact a representative of the association has a name, address and phone number. If your association did not file this Certificate, it's possible that the title company had no way of knowing whom to call for delinquency and closing information. In that scenario, it's possible that the title company would not be responsible for failing to collect amounts due the association at the date of closing. Here's the specific language in Chapter 209 that discusses Management Certificates:

"§ 209.004. MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATES. (a) A property owners' association shall record in each county in which any portion of the residential subdivision is located a management certificate, signed and acknowledged by an officer or the managing agent of the association, stating:

(1) the name of the subdivision;

(2) the name of the association;

(3) the recording data for the subdivision;

(4) the recording data for the declaration;

(5) the mailing address of the association or the name and mailing address of the person managing the association; and

(6) other information the association considers appropriate.

(b) The property owners' association shall record an amended management certificate not later than the 30th day after the date the association has notice of a change in any information in the recorded certificate[0] required by Subsection (a).

(c) The property owners' association and its officers, directors, employees, and agents are not subject to liability to any person for a delay in recording or failure to record a management certificate, unless the delay or failure is wilful or caused by gross negligence.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 926, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 2002"

Mary, if you have more questions, please don't hesitate to write me at info@associationtimes.com.

Regards,

Margey

That is the most concise and helpful information I have received from anyone. (see above Q&A) I have been considering ordering the CMCA home study course just so that I can understand all of the requirements and processes. Would it be beneficial to me for the purpose of better understanding the laws and regulations based on the questions I asked? I am also considering geting into this business. I know the certification is voluntary but is it worth going ahead with it?

- Mary

With regard to your obtaining the CMCA certification, you will certainly learn a lot about managing a community association by attending the prerequisite M-100 course offered by the Community Associations Institute. The CMCA certification will also look good on your resume if you apply for a job with a management company.

On the other hand, CAI's "ABCs of Community Associations" is designed specifically for board members. It's a different version of the M-100, geared specifically to volunteers who serve on the board of community associations.

CAI offers the M-100 class in chapter cities throughout the United States. Local CAI chapters conduct the ABCs course, usually once or twice a year.

Regards,

Margey

I own a condominium in the State of Washington and the board of directors have decided to make the Association a Corporation after 28 years of not being a corporation. My question is what type of impact does this have on the owners and what exactly does becoming a Corporation mean?

- Anne

Not being an attorney, I'm hesitant to provide legal advice about the reasons for incorporating a homeowners association. So, I went to my favorite resource – the Internet. I entered “advantages of incorporating” and, believe it or not, came up with 29,401 sites! I've cut and pasted information from two randomly-selected sites, www.ailcorp.com and www.bizfilings.com, which specifically address your question.

www.ailcorp.com:

There are several different types of corporate structures. Although it is not necessary to use a lawyer or an accountant when incorporating, American Incorporators recommends that you consult with either your lawyer or tax advisor to determine the value of incorporating your business and which type of corporation is most appropriate for your business.

Corporation
Although the most formal corporate structure, a general business corporation is the most widely used by both small and large businesses and offers the fewest restrictions. A general business corporation may have an unlimited number of stockholders/owners whose personal assets are generally protected in the event of a lawsuit against the corporation or if the business fails. A stockholder's liability is usually limited to the amount of investment in the business and no more.

Protection of Personal Assets
The major reason why individuals choose to incorporate their business is to protect their personal assets, such as a home, car or family savings. In the event of a lawsuit or if your business should fail, your personal assets can not generally be touched. This limited liability feature of corporations is not available in a sole proprietorship or partnership, where the individual or partners are personally liable for all business debts.

Tax Advantages
Corporations and LLCs can take advantage of tax savings options that are not available to sole proprietorships or partnerships. For example, corporations can establish pension, profit-sharing and stock ownership plans, which can lower the corporation's taxable income. Medical, life and disability insurance premiums are also completely tax deductible for corporations. In addition, a corporation can own shares of stock in another corporation and receive 80 percent of the dividends tax-free.

Corporations can raise capital by issuing stock,bonds or other securities.

Corporations and LLCs are the most enduring form of business structure. If a corporation owner dies, their portion of the business can be transferred quickly without interruption of the corporation's operations.

Estate and family planning is simplified since shares of a corporation can be easily distributed to family members.

Corporations and LLCs often experience a greater ease in doing business. Many stores and banks favor corporate accounts and offer discounts.

What are the advantages of incorporation?

One of the primary advantages of incorporation is the limited liability the corporate entity affords its shareholders. Typically, shareholders and directors are not liable for the debts and obligations of the corporation; thus, creditors will not come knocking at the door of a shareholder or director to pay debts of the corporation. In a partnership or sole proprietorship the owner's personal assets may be used to pay debts of the business. Maintaining the limited liability of a corporation requires that the shareholders and directors follow all the rules of governance, including holding annual meetings and maintaining meeting minutes, which is why we offer corporate forms disks and corporate kits as part of our complete incorporation package.

Other advantages:

A corporation's life is not dependent upon its members. A corporation possesses the feature of unlimited life. If an owner dies or wishes to sell his or her interest, the corporation will continue to exist and do business.

• Retirement funds and qualified retirement plans (like 401k) may be set up more easily with a corporation.
• Ownership of a corporation is easily transferable.
• Capital can be raised more easily through the sale of stock.
• A corporation possesses centralized management.

What are the disadvantages of incorporation?

The primary disadvantage to a corporation is double taxation. Profits of a corporation are taxed twice when the profits are distributed to shareholders as dividends. They are taxed first as income to the corporation, then as income to the shareholder. All reasonable business expenses such as salaries are deductions against corporate income and can minimize the double tax. Further, the double tax can be eliminated by making an S corporation election.

Other disadvantages:

• There is more complexity and expense with forming a corporation.
• There are more extensive record keeping requirements.
• Operating a corporation across state lines often requires the corporation to qualify to do business in the other state.

Regards,

Margey

Does Missouri have specific laws in regards to the enforcing of home owner's association indentures... ie: fines, litigation, etc?

- Julie W.

A quick look through Missouri's state statutes (www.Moga.state.mo.us) revealed Section 274, the Cooperative Act, Section 355, the Not-for-Profit Act, and Section 448, the Condominium Act. While Section 355 contained provisions that would affect property owners associations, on my quick scan I didn't see anything specifically addressing the operations of homeowners association.

If you need specific information regarding state laws affecting Missouri homeowners associations, I suggest you contact one of the Community Associations Institute chapters in Missouri -- Chapter Executive Directors Deborah Howard in Kansas City, dhowar6@attglobal.net, telephone 816-356-172, or Robin Nagle in St. Louis, nagle@sbcglobal.net, telephone 314-725-3273.

Sincerely,

Margey

I'm in the process of selling my townhouse. An offer was accepted and during the inspection, it was noticed that the roof needs replacement. The buyer's attorney is trying to inquire when the roof will be replaced and who is responsible for the cost of the replacement. The buyer's attorney, my real estate agent and myself have attempted to contact the property manager numerous times to get these asnwers, however she never returns phone calls. Not only does this look bad to a prospective buyer that the management company is never available if problems arise, this is jeopardizing my sale. What recourse do I have if this sale falls through?

- Mike M.

While the governing documents for your homeowners association can tell you if the owner or the association is responsible for roof replacement, they cannot give you a time line. Since your manager has not responded to your phone calls, ask to speak to the manager's supervisor. This will accomplish two goals -- you get the information you need, and the supervisor learns that his/her manager may need closer observation and perhaps retraining in customer service.

Sincerely,

Margey

A year ago I received a letter from the Association, requesting that I remove all items placed in the common area around my townhome. Those items are:

1. A large professionaly landscaped ($2000.00) area installed in 1994 with approval from the Association.
2. Cementing along my home, done by me, to stop rising water from entering my home.
3. Pots in the alley with beautifully maintained flowers.
4. All white vinyl lattice and lighting placed behind my garden and along my home. This is a dividing fence from actual homes, not townhomes, and was installed and paid for by them. This fence does not belong to the Association.

All the residents love and enjoy my beautiful gardens and don't want any of it removed. I hired a lawyer, Association hired a lawyer, I fired my lawyer, now it is going to court in May. They gave me two weeks to rip it out. I served on the board and was landscape chairman for years, plus supervised a $800,000.00 renovation. Could it be jealousy?

- Peggy

I would like to think that your board's actions are not out of jealousy but, rather, an effort to comply with your governing documents which your directors are charged with upholding.

While it sounds like you have put a lot of time, effort and money into improving your area, your documents may contain a standard provision prohibiting owners from altering the common areas without prior written approval from the board. If you have in writing a previous board's approval of your improvement projects, now would be a good time to present it to the board. Even if the previous board approved your work, the current board is obligated to rescind that permission if it determines that the approval was granted inappropriately or contrary to the board's authority.

Rather than litigating this issue, is there a possibility of reaching a compromise over the extent of your improvements? Your board is probably quite limited in authorizing an owner to encroach on common elements, but perhaps there is a little leeway in allowing some landscape upgrade around your townhome.

Sincerely,

Margey

We have a serious problem in our community with dogs barking at all hours of the day and night. A number of home owners keep a dog house in their yards. The animals bark at anything and everything. Is it possible to restrict the use of dog houses where these dogs are kept indoors or at least in the garage?

- Jim

Barking dogs can certainly create a strain among neighbors, and whatever the board decides to do to resolve the problem may not satisfy everyone.

The first step in determining the association's authority to control dog and people behavior is to look at the governing documents, primarily the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions, or perhaps what may be called the Deed Restrictions, as well as the Rules and Regulations. Are there already limitations in those documents regarding allowing dog houses in the back yard or excessive dog barking? If so, then your board should enforce the restrictions that already exists.

On the other hand, if there is no reference in any of the above-referenced documents to limiting dog houses or barking, the next step is to look at the bylaws of your community association. Is the board authorized to promulgate rules and, if so, is there a required rule development process?

Finally, before beginning the process of creating a rule regarding barking dogs and dog houses, check your state's statutes to determine if there is a specific procedure describing the steps the association must take in order to adopt a rule. Absent language dictating the process in either your governing documents or state statutes, consider adopting the following method:

1. At a board meeting, discuss what you would like to rule to say and how it will be enforced. Create a draft of the proposed rule.
   
2. Announce to your members that the board will be considering a rule prohibiting dog houses and controlling barking dogs. Be sure to include in the announcement the date, time and location of the meeting in which the board will vote on the rule, and invite owners to offer their opinion on the proposed rule. It's best that they submit their comments in writing by a certain date. It could happen that an owner with a different perspective on the issue may provide essential insight that could result in a revision to the wording or scope of the rule.
   
3. At the announced date and time, the board should meet for final discussions, consider the previously-submitted input from your members, and vote on the rule.
   
4. Some states require that rules be legally recorded before they can be enforced. Check your state statutes and governing documents to determine if such language exists. Even if it doesn't, it's not a bad idea to record the rule, in a form of a resolution, to ensure that all future owners receive a copy of it when title to their home is researched for a resale.
   
5. Mail the recorded resolution to all owners and lessees, advising them that you will begin enforcing the rule on a certain date at least 30 days from the date of the mailing. Check your documents and state statutes again to determine if the letters must be sent by certified mail.
   
6. Be sure to enforce the rule fairly and consistently.

One more critical consideration. If your Declaration or Bylaws specifically authorize dog houses in back yards, and/or allow dogs to remain in fenced yards whether they bark or not, then the rules development process is not the answer. You cannot make rules that conflict with your governing documents. Instead, you will have to follow the amendment process detailed in the document that contains the wording you want to change.

Before you ask your members to approve an amendment, or before the board approves a new rule, be sure to consult with your legal counsel to ensure that you are complying with your documents and state law, and that your new regulation is appropriate.

Sincerely,

Margey

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